A Surgeon Looks at Creation
Interview with Dr. Warwick Glover, M.B. B.S., FRACS, FRCSED
by Ken Ham
Dr. Warwick Glover is a general surgeon working in Melbourne, Australia. He is a Fellow of the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons and the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh.
Ken Ham [K.H.]: Dr Glover, I understand that you don’t believe in evolution and you accept the Genesis account literally. How did you come to that position as a doctor?
Dr. Warwick Glover [W.G.]: I come from a family that were perhaps Christian ‘fellow travellers’—trying to maintain a Christian ethic but not perhaps understanding why they did. I had tended towards Christianity but did have trouble with this. I had been brainwashed into believing evolution but did find it difficult to understand when I studied all the miraculous design in something like the human body. It was hard correlating my beliefs in Christianity and Darwinian evolution theory. I suppose I would say that I thought I believed in evolution, but I could never really accept it because I couldn’t actually see a mechanism, and thought all the odds were so far-fetched. I was searching for a way to continue Christianity without having to compromise my science. I went through a period of a few years of reading books which were written by evolutionists but who tended to ‘can’ the theory. Then I saw an advertisement for one of the Creation Science Foundation lecture tours. You were one of the speakers Ken. I must say that I came away from that meeting and felt a fool. You said so many things which I knew from my medical training were true, but I suddenly realized that I had been brainwashed to think otherwise. From that moment—I didn’t have an ‘on the road to Damascus’ conversion, but very quickly I think—I became a much more devout Christian. I gave my life to the Lord and I’ve really devoured anything on creation science ever since. I have never found any problems in correlating Christianity with true scientific beliefs and I do spend a lot of my time discussing this with colleagues. I of course have a great opportunity to do this with patients and I see this as part of my vocation; to alert people to the true meaning of life and the true meaning of science, and what the scientific evidence represents.
[K.H.]: Have any of your non-Christian colleagues or patients come to listen to the claims of Christ as a result of your witnessing to them about creation?
[W.G.]: Many have become interested in creation science, reading its literature; a few have come to CSF meetings. I do know of quite a few who I think are nearly there. I rejoice that one or two have become complete Christians.
[K.H.]: Does the creation area help you to communicate with them concerning Christian things whereas previously you may not have been able to do that?
[W.G.]: Markedly so. I think another area where this came up was in my practice in dealing with a lot of cancer patients where you may have to tell them that you are unable to cure them but you have been able to help them. They eventually come back and ask how long they have to live and then, amazingly, a large percentage ask my own personal views on the meaning of life.
[K.H.]: Would it be true to say that the majority of your colleagues would be evolutionists, and if so do you think it is because they were indoctrinated in this during their university training?
W.G.]: I think initially that would have to be the reason. However, most of them are very professional people dealing with technology, and they do at times make flippant remarks about the improbability of all these things coming about by chance. But there is that stumbling block in their hearts. They don’t want to entertain any ideas that might make them have to confront God.
[K.H.]: How intense was evolutionary indoctrination during your own university training?
[W.G.]: I think I would have to say that it was absolute. Biology was my favourite subject at school; the biology books in those days were already heavily evolutionary. This continued in my early years of medicine, although I would say that after first or second year in medical training, origins does not really come into it at all. Everyone just assumes evolution. Lecturers in biochemistry and physiology occasionally made reference to our evolutionary past just like they would to Newton’s law of gravity.
[K.H.]: So creation as an option is not entertained?
[W.G.]: No, and I think this continues into your post-graduate times. In Australia at the moment one would have to be guarded about creationist views to remain successful in one’s position in an institution. That is a personal opinion.
[K.H.]: Have you ever had any discrimination because of your creationist views?
[W.G.]: Not discrimination of a nasty kind, just jibes and some ridicule at times.
[K.H.]: Can you think of anything in your university training that you were taught dogmatically as fact about evolution that has since been totally refuted?
[W.G.]: Yes, I have reviewed all the evidences for evolution which I was taught. I have actually even retained the original biology books I used. I have come to realize that there really isn’t much fact there that would make one think that evolution should be strongly supported. In particular I think of the area of embryology. The falsehood that has been spread in the community at large about the human embryo recapitulating its evolutionary history as the embryo develops, as evidenced by early embryos supposedly having ‘gill slits’.
[K.H.]: Yes, I remember being taught that at school. We were taught ‘ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny’ and we were taught an embryo had gill slits, that it had a tail like a reptile and had a yolk sac like a bird and so on. Were you taught those same things?
[W.G.]: Yes. Ernst Haeckel and his ‘biogenetic law’ sort of got these ideas rolling. Of course embryos of a wide range of mammals look similar at various stages of development, but we should be looking at the differences. A human embryo is always destined to become a human, an elephant is always destined to become an elephant, and a whale is always destined to be a whale. If we carefully study embryos at early stages we can recognize quite easily which one is to become the elephant or the whale or the human respectively.
So a human embryo does not have gill slits?
[W.G.]: A human embryo definitely does not have gill slits. We know all embryos begin as two germ cells uniting and each of those germ cells contributes to the DNA blueprint which causes the embryo to develop into what it is designed to be. This follows an architect’s design or blueprint just like assembling cars in a factory. Making the analogy with cars on a production line—there are similarities between a Volkswagen and a Rolls-Royce in the early stages of assembly, in that we have to put on wheels, have a windscreen and a steering wheel. But a Volkswagen is always destined to be a Volkswagen and a Rolls-Royce is always destined to be a Rolls-Royce…
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image credit: Rolls Royce Wraith, Volkswagen Beetle 2010. Background Tobias van Schneider